The right shaft for the player is far more important IMO. Although new legislation is going to clarify this further. I came across them a couple times online and their prices are very competitive, but are they any good? Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Thank you MGS for this great, unbiased comparison. On average the apex of each shot was justslightlyunder 2.5 yards higher with the Burner, which along with higher ball and club head speeds explains the difference in carry yardage between the clubs. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, (your email address will not be published), Costco Kirkland Performance + Golf Ball (Version 3), Costco Kirkland Signature Wedges Version 2, http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-bags.html, http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/golf-clubs/accessories/. For example, a comparison between the ACER XF Leggera and TM Burner 2.0. In the end, it is hard to figure out the quality of a specific model of golf club without using it for a significant amount of time on the course after buying it. Exterior dimensions are one thing but how good is the quality of the actual material that went into making the club head and shaft. Most of us who choose to play clones most likely at some point played name brand clubs. Both sets have the same loft per club. You will receive personalized attention from the initial interview through product delivery. Which they are doing, but it is costly. Im sorry but some of your facts are wrong. You can post now and register later. For those who feel Clones perform just as well as OEM I wont argue that point, you have convinced yourself. My perception of what I see around me is that golfers fall into two categories. I switched to the Hireko prophet irons. Our all-weather studio is strategically positioned to face the golf range. It is your decision and right (for the time being) to buy a Clone/Knock-Off. How can a Clone maker or Seller say that they are not trying to fool anyone? many of us are affiliated with our own equipment companys therefore recomendations tend to be biased but for those not in a position to get decked out in an expensive set my staff and i gladly help put them in pre-owned/used name brand equipment for often times much cheaper than a new set of clones and even if it does cost a little bit more they make it back in peace of mind. I bought it and it was perfect. I cant say enough good things about the quality of the clubs I have purchased from Giga. that would be true in large part. Purchasing used golf clubs is a great way to ensure you have quality equipment in your golf bag at the right price. However: the result you provided does tell us that one club seems not twenty-five percent better to justify the cost difference, but as with a new suit, cost is a factor to most people some believing the lower cost buys the good-enough quality and some believe they deserve the best, and humans equate best with price. So, they go in that direction. Clones have come a long way since the dark ages. I understand the average iron costs less than $10 to make thats head shaft and grip. Cant find a reference when I Google it. I have more confidence standing over my X-Hot and enjoy owning them without having to hide the label X-heat. That's great feedback! KZG couldnt afford them. So to sum it up, the component industry made a lot of the modern technology way before the major OEMs had any of this gear which to me says that the component industry has a lot more Firsts than any of the OEMs put together. Keep up the great work! Golfdom | A Worldwide Golf Shops Company Maltby has been around since the mid 1970's I believe. I started getting their catalogs in the 80's and buying from them. While I remember the ACER I choose to play them because I refuse paying the inflated prices to pad their advertising budgets and salesmans expense reports. 3 golfers were asked to hit a series of 12 shots with each driver. After all, there is no way on this green earth that a clone with an assembled price of less than $100 ($59 head only) could outperform a club from a popular golf company with an initial price tag of $300 right? Eliminating the human factor suggests we can hit a golf ball off the tee with precise consistency if we use the same club. I met him in person at an Lpga event in Atlantic city (he is the caddie/boyfriend of Sara Brown. Didn't find much else on here, so that's why I started the new thread to explore more. Ive tried Hirekos Green Ghost and Blue Crush and DTGs FGS Nano and Id put them up against anything out there. I'm looking at the Acer XV Pro heads because they have progressive bounce which I have come to really like. I was looking at the 85 and 75g steel shafts also. And while I might argue that over the last couple of years theyve taken a small step backwards in those areas, they remain largely ahead of the curve. It is just possible that some of the better OEMs make slightly better clubs, but the question is, as put in the article, whether for the individual this makes the OEM club worth the very substantial difference in price. I would actually like to see more tests done on off brand stuff, like the KZGs or Warrior custom golf (you know who you are, I played them to). Not so much. For those interested in carry only, the Burner was 7.11 yards longer on average, which we think is significant. It would seem Value Golf is where the Pinhawk clubheads originated. Used equipment from Wishon or KZG virtually have no resale value and offer a tremendous value. I recently purchased, and have been hitting a fitted set of Ping G30 irons. For 2 of the 3 testers, the Burner produced more spin, however; as weve suggested, not by any significant amount. Launch Angle and Apex For the most part, the Burner and the Clone produced similar launch characteristics. I have built clubs as a hobby for some time and certainly am happy to hear your testing results on brand names vs. clones. Pin hawks are much more cost effective in my opinion for testing so I will most likely go that route. And all golfers know it isnt them, it is the clubs. Welcome to 2nd Swing - Shop Over 100,000 New and Used Clubs +, Online Only, Exclusions Apply - Extra 45% OFF Already Discounted Apparel with code, Complete Set Sale: Men's & Women's Name Brand From $529.99. However to say if we hit one thousand shots with the same club we can get a very good idea of our results. Some of you that shout the accolades of name brand clubs and tell everyone else the pitfalls of playing clones you probably never hit a quality clone before. Clones what good are they? I for one would like to see more tests of component clubs similar to the Dynacraft Prophet Tour Iron test done a few months back. Turner T7 that resembles a TaylorMade r7. In 1997 R.J. Liou reached a settlement with Callaway. Turn around time on regripping is usually 48 hours. Counterfeits like we said are NOT the same as clones and the counterfeit equipment is often the cheapest and lowest quality equipment. The important thing to me is the name brands hold there value and sell quickly used where you dont get hardly any interest advertising used clones and almost have to give them away to get them out of the garage. Shafts can make a huge difference, and fitting an expensive aftermarket shaft in a $50 clone driver seems well, counter-intuitive. I have tried and love my Maltby gear. Its the swing that matters not your clubs! I think that you are just talking B.S. Irons | Golf Galaxy HeIl, we may even have completely different views on what best means. Someone else designed it, so theyre going to laser copy it, skip the R&D, use cheaper material, spend nothing on advertising the new design, and take money from a certain consumer segment. Of course, if you want re-sell value probably by OEM. Oh , incidently, this thing about the heights of people I feel is not an important part of the fit. still undecided on shaft. Restore formatting, Have you read the above stated article I am talking about. As many manufacturers of goods will attest, conducting site visits and monitoring factories in China, is a difficult and costly task. Guys, I have a fairly unique perspective on this issue. Got it, thanks! Tim not only is a popular fitter but one of the most sought-after instructors. QUALITY!! I have a dynacraft hollow body driving iron that I got from hireko for $17 (for the head). I have hit them myself and compared a set of them with my name brand and really with the same shaft,,,, they were every bit as good and a bit better in some respects cause I made them to fit and every component was checked. He was trained by Ralph Malby who started Golfworks. There is the direct counterfeit, which is a dead-on copy that carries the legitimate products trademark, and thats illegal. Speaking of non OEM brands, which of the following irons will be best quality for play- Maltby, Wishon,, Alpha, Kzg, Hireko, etc. I wonder why? If you cant afford the latest and greatest, do some research and find something that will work for you at a price you can afford. Iron Set for Men (5,6,7,8,9,PW,AW,SW) Right Handed with Regular Flex Steel Shaft, WHI-711, Set 9 pcs(4,5,6,7,8,9,PW,GW,SW) or Individual, Iron 7 for Men Right Handed Golfers -(Flex- Regular), Kids Golf Set with Glove, Balls, Tees, and Towel, Golf Season is Here. The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components and clones for companies like Golfsmith, Hireko and Diamondtour. Fast forward to now and Dynacraft is Hireko complete with Jeff Summit, a go to guru on club building and perfotmance that worked Dynacraft with Tom Wishon. PssstWanna buy some clubs? Golf Digest 14 Jul 2003. Then to follow it up with the only diff is that the Major OEMs have more money to B.S. My point? I am/was a Dynacraft Class A clubmaker and a member of the old Dynacraft ProfessionalClubmakers Society. Sound and Feel TaylorMade has a reputation for producing great feeling, great sounding drivers. Amazingly all that expensive hardware wont fix a bad set up and an outside in swing path. Think someone mentioned that here? Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i &3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R I do proudly carry 3 PW Maltby MMBs (forged blades) with Project X shafts, custom fit to my length. It is a matter of time and money right now. Distance For each of our 3 testers, the real Burner was the distance winner. Ultimately decided he needed something more forgiving, but overall was impressed. Also, your purchase will include LIFETIME LIE ANGLE ADJUSTMENTS. I think what is more interesting is that you missed the fact that I stated in the sentence those companies are both clone and component makers: DIRECT QUOTE: You can also get many/most of their components from Value Golf (I'm not affiliated, other than as a customer). And, as they acquire them they would tweak the designs to what is available today. Are shafts or heads manufactured to a large (+-) tolerance with the (-) tolerance being the norm or are the parts manufactured to close tolerances? Each had common components like shafts, grips, and clubmaking supplies but Golfworks had the best rework/refinishing stuff. 1757 Golf Club | 45120 Waxpool Road Dulles, VA 20166 | 703.444.0901. Web1 Acer SR1 Fairway Woods $94.99 Acer XV Irons $44.99 Rating: 3 Acer XV Pro Irons $44.99 Rating: 1 Acer SR1 Hybrids $79.99 Acer XDS Fairway Woods $94.99 Rating: 6 Acer XDS Extreme Draw Fairway Woods $94.99 Acer XDS Extreme Draw Titanium Driver $159.99 Rating: 1 Acer XV Ultimate Thriver $169.99 Rating: 9 Acer XV Thriver Mini (Major as in U.S. Open, Masters, British Open P.G.A. Ill use Infiniti as an example. SOURCES at this price, you can keep in trunk, travel without worrying to much,..the set the year before,i tried razer clone heads,got a little rust in grooves, and diamond tour took them back, and build me an upgraded set for small little extra,.! If however, you place a premium on accuracy, though not as conclusive, there is some suggestion that the clone could be the more accurate of the two heads. Of course, that has to be with an * because of of all the stuff I mentioned earlier. You might also find it surprising that these clone designs are often approved by the name brand manufacturers before they are released. Pinemeadows offers a lower end shaft as their standard, but you can upgrade too. WebUsed Golf Clubs. A clone of an FT-i is made so that beginning golfers think that they are getting the same design characteristics as the original at a budget price. Thank you for the update. https://www.hirekogolf.com/golf-components/clubheads/golf-irons/acer-xv-pro-iron-clubhead.html. He also took the shine off them, and even worked the leading edge a bit. Your link has been automatically embedded. All those statements do is hurt the component biz. I made my biggest improvements this year when I broke down and took a couple lessons from Derek Radley of Mobilegolflesson.com. Give me a web site that shows the difference names of club components and the quality of the components so I can make an informed decision so that I dont have to rely on a manufacturer who has advertised his name to be number one. The rest (save for some Ping), come from Japan. By As much as I preach performance first, theres only so much Im willing to sacrifice in terms of esthetics, sound, and feel. Written by L Mayhew 2007 . I worked in manufacturing for over 50 years and watched all kinds of products being manufactured from high quality aircraft bolts to electronic equipment to toys. Does seem disheartening that GolfSmith and GolfWorks would be lumped into second tier. Actually, Steve, Tom Wishon has LOTS of golf club patents in his name. Contrary to a traditional set of irons, the SL's are all designed to be the same length throughout the entire set. Top subscription boxes right to your door, 1996-2023, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. Golf Clubs | Hireko Golf 2nd Swing Golf has thelargest selectionof used golf clubs in the world so why shop anywhere else? They are concentrating on Counterfeits and Copies, but again, Clones and Knock Offs are part of the same problem. Ive used their 302 model iron for years now and just recently compared their performance against several of the leading irons on the market. Sorry bub. Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. That was a great article, anything that can spark so much emotion and debate is a good thing. The real enemy here is the counterfiet club not the knock-off, in an age where we are all trying to bring more people to this wonderfully aggrevating game I think that the knock-offs help fill a price point and allow more people to afford to play the game. Ive also had the WH XG #7 (RIP) and irons from Tour Edge. Once the epoxy dried, shafts were cut to a relatively modest 44.75 inches. Theyre still something to consider, its just they dont get the play on Tour or heavy ad-machines compelling people to buy their stuff. Maybe the new Golfworks KE4 can play like the originals but for cost these keep me in the 80 range on the scorecard. No wonder the golfing consumer doesnt take the component head biz seriously.when I read this type of stuff..I am bewildered. Note: The FTC considers the terms Clone and Knock-Off to be identical. Golf Galaxy Certified Club Technicians use Gap distance is very good and the strong lofts assist length in the 5, 6, 7 irons. Other than that they work. A lot of the posts in this thread are opinions, I prefer facts. so just pick the better heads, I think they do a good job building, but you might want to get the parts and find a builder (like the pro you got fitting) and get maybe a meticous build, swing weight matched closer maybe,.but for most, the low price is based partly on supplying work for their shop tooAnd dont just buy for looks,..get the stats, and match the right components for the performance you really want. Its almost laughable to make those type of statements! Clones are a short cut. Some features of a driver, its head size, for instance, cannot be protected, but others can. He mentioned they also had design input on the Pinhawk heads too. Great read! Up closeummmnot so much. Theoretically your using the same shaft is incorrect. (circa 2013)https://mygolfspy.com/ultimate-review-acer-xs-driver/. My son is custom club maker and said that his best selling iron head. Most companies are trying to get it right with their stock shafts. Years ago Maltby (Golfworks founder) did a quality study on the tolerances of his clubs versus clones, dont recall if he sampled OEMs as well. I have used this club as my driver.It has a 13 degree face, It have spent way over $1,000 on drivers and never satisfied. . Looked at the Hireko acer xds iron heads and they looked pleasing to eye, decent finish, the right off set.Need to have a 6 iron built up and hit it. Because MyGolfSpy Labs doesnt put a score on things, rather than have our testers fill out our surveys, we simply had a discussion about the subjective aspects of our two drivers. With a higher quality manufacturing process the clone design might actually work. Starting should also include lessons. Odyssey Putters; Clearance Golf Clubs Up to $180 Off TaylorMade Stealth Golf Clubs; PING G425 Golf Clubs; Shop All PING Golf Clubs; Super Game
Giga provides a great club for the average golfer at an affordable price. Obviously, many big brand clubs are really good and almost always lead the trends in golf technology (maybe not originally came up with all of the ideas). A Clone or Knock off is not hard to see. They are good components and last as long as other components, I have bought. Testers Wanted: Maxfli Tour Series Golf Balls! Note I'm 68 and using A flex but with the right shaft for your game they will play to any flex. I have used the big brands like TaylorMade, component brands like Golfsmith, and unbranded clone clubs. This doesnt count the shafts, grips and balls Ive gone through. Do the clubs from Hireko stand up to Maltby? While I cant speak for GolfSmith, Hireko is also considered partly a clone company. Kent Graphtec dealt primarily in knockoff clubs, products with names such as King Snake and Big Bursar, simulations of the popular clubs King Cobra and Big Bertha. Anybody that uses a cheap clone head should be able to figure out why theres such a difference in price. I think I am going to get some components and try building an over length set. First I will answer the bottom line question "Do the clubs from Hirekostand up to Maltby?" Unless its done in jestof course. For the clone model we tested a Heated H, which wed classify as a mid-teir clone of TaylorMades once popular driver. Why? Stupid autocorrect! From what I understand, Bang Golf doesnt make clones nor knock-offs. There is a difference in this world with having the right to do something, and doing something with honor. I mostly buy OEM equipment, but I have bought components. The guys whose clones (similarly designed recreations of clubs from the big golf companies) rattle proudly in their bags, and there are the guys that wouldnt dream of playing something that wasnt made by a name EVERYBODY knows. Prior to that acquisition, Dynacraft were one of the Big Three component companies, along with Golfsmith and GolfWorks, and werein Ohio. As with our test of the Shotmaker, shafts were spined and FLOd. I was somewhat disappointed. SEARCH ALL Used GOLF CLUBS FROM ALL BRANDS. Iwant to know why you didnt do the same for irons? How many 20 plus handicaps do you know that spend hundreds of dollars each year ensuring they have the latest name brand technology in their bag? Copyright 2023. I would like to see head to head comparisons of drivers, irons, hybrids, etc. Do you recall a clone called Arnies Own several years ago? Head is just going along for the ride. Not sure about Pinhawk, think they are their own entity. Hireko is also an authorized reseller of There are just too many cases backing up the problems. If thats your game, then its hard not to argue with the 7.11 yards of additional carry (or 6.03 yards of total distance) that our testers showed with the Burner. But not the component club heads. Yup, found that article. Didn't find much else on here, so that's why I started the new thread to explore more. I have found lots of Maltby lovers I have purchased components from Golfsmith, Golfworks, Hireko and Diamond Tour Golf to name a few. . If youre unsure about which used golf clubs are right for you, be sure to speak to one of our award-winning certified fitters, available in our stores and on the phone. Golfsmith were, er, well Golfsmith and we'll leave it at that. Now counterfeit producers is a different story. If golfers were in the world of buying by results club sales would shrink to almost zero. WebCobra KING TEC One Length Custom Utility Iron. You also probably wouldnt have the balls to show up at the course with them in your bag after all someone may poke fun at you. You were basing most of your information on PssstWanna buy some clubs?, which only talks about Integra and Trophy Sports (owned by the same family). No need to point that out and recommend starting a new thread for those who insist on making that there lifes mission. GOOGLE Counterfeit Golf Clubs and take a look at how rampant it is. First let me say that I am 88 years old and have been playing Hireko golf clubs, particularly their THRIVER for 8 years. I started playing golf 4 years ago, immediately began keeping.g an hcap and I was around a 20. The real issue is what so called reputable companies charge for their equipment. I believe it was good for MGS to write about this since it eduates people about the other choices they have. Well today youre going to find out once and for all. If a component seller such as Diamond Tour wants to be fully legitimate, they need to invest fully in true component companies such as SMT, and abandon the practice of selling Clone clubs. WebGolf Clubs. Visit the Cobra Golf Store. Built my wife an Acer driver in 14*loft, she loves it. Caveat, Ihave not built any of their(Hireko)newer models but I have with GolfWorks. The brand doesnt seem to make much difference in quality to me. Wherever corners could be cut in the manufacturing process they were. Four years later, in March 2001, the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles ruled that R.J. Liou, Kent Graphtec and Trophy Sports, a separate company started by Jethro and his mother, Yeh-Chyn, in late 2000, had breached the settlement by continuing to sell Big Bursars. Loft and lie adjustment involves the use of specially-designed equipment and a great deal of experience. While not a tremendous amount in raw form, from a percentage standpoint it works out to an increase of 15.7%, which when youre trying to keep a ball in the short grass, probably is a significant amount, and helps to explain the difference in accuracy between the clubs. When it came to heads Golfworks was the best. Note that Pinhawk is a How many of them are the clubs the least of their problems? Pab, if you have read the posts above you should come away confused (as I am) as to whether non OEM brands might be best. What is legal is the generic look-alike that does not infringe on a companys trademarks or patents. I had back surgery with only partical success and will be playing limited golf so I would like to buy a good quality ( as close to OEM as possible) non OEM set of irons and have them custom fit. In my bag, Callaway I-Mix driver with Fuji 757 Speeder, Integra Quadratic 3-wood with a Golfsmith Snake Eyes shaft, (best damn fairway wood shaft Ive ever seen), 18* Snake Eyes hybrid, 3 PW Maltby MMBs, 54* Maltby Forged Wedge and 60* Snake Eyes Forged Wedge and a Maltby Putter. . Bottom line though is that no matter what fitting is the biggest goal, whether or not the clubs are name brand or knock-offs. So while, technically you may not be buying and thereby promoting counterfeit clubs, you are in fact enabling those same facilities to continue by buying Clones/Knock-Offs. As far as woods go, I stick with the name brands because there is a lot more to a wood than just to look like the other. I know of at least 2 touring pro who wanted to be sponsored by KZG and use their clubs. They swing quite heavy compared to most but I got used to them. It appears that you are debating the way he phrased the sentence. I trust GolfWorks regarding their club head model designs/quality and spec tolerances. nice way to put down your own company. I believe hirekobought out dynacraft the same way that diamond golf bought wishon? The assertion made that many Clones are made in the same factories as OEM clubs is unsubstantiated and simply incorrect.. So in a nutshell, the clones sound and feel like crap with less distance. Im not a big fan of clones or knock-offs. For actual testing we used the same protocols we use for our ULTIMATE Reviews. There are other companies with their own designs not knock-offs nor clones. I called Hireko and spoke to the guy who makes the videos (tech line). But: Fatigue, digestive progress of our breakfast, coffee, momentary humor, stance vaiation, conversational distraction, realizing the consequences of the hit, ball life, audience . Its not the arrows, its the Indian guys. These companies and others (Alpha, GeekGolf, KZG, etc) have very high quality, custom designed components that are just as good and in many cases better than the name brand manufactures. Wanna buy some clubs? Are there bad name brand designsYES. Custom fitting can have a dramatic effect on your game. While there may have been a foundry that produced both OEM and Clone, it isnt a general rule, as OEMs have strict contracts with the foundries they use, that prevents the practice. A counterfeiter tries to alter a companys protected features just enough to avoid prosecution. Because the ball position and club length are the same, you can use the same swing for every single-length iron, improving consistency and repeatability. Most golfers lump OEM Components in with clones even though these companies do their own R&D and have no intention of copying other companies. I am now ordering today,shafts, grips and epoxy plus a three wood rescue club from them. Bigger golf companies have more money to spend on the details, and while ultimately those details many not directly impact performance, I can tell you with certainty that given two clubs with similar performance attributes, the prettier one will always sell bettereven if its more expensive. Wishon Golf, GolfWorks, and Golfsmith are good quality with their own designs. Jethro Liou is an expert in the knockoff business. $249.99. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy Those factories not only produce clones and counterfeits they also produce for OEMs (I know this because I happen to know a guy in one of these factories), All big OEMs admit having their heads and some shafts manufactured in China. If a manufacturer doubled his price on his highest priced clubs (lets call them X) making no other change except price (lets call the inflated priced clubs Y) and taged the Y clubs ultra sales would probably increase for both clubs, some wanting the very best because theyre priced higher, and some saying This club looks just as good and I can buy it for half the price of the other! The mental human factor.