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Thank you very much. And the categories existing within the context of the awards show are exclusionary and it is erasure of anyone who exists outside of the gender binary. I got to speak to NPR about it, and Ill just repeat something that I said there, which is like, Okay, so then if Denzel Washington can enter as an actress and Viola Davis can enter as an actor, then the Emmys themselves have shown the categories to be absurd and archaic and ultimately meaningless. Dillon handles the encounter with grace and without judgement; they are one of the most chill, open-hearted, and patient people/actors Ive ever met. Billions or Orange Is the New Black?They are literally so different. I love that character so, so much because one of the things that I really struggle with in terms of the way that non-binary is allowed to exist on screen is that most people chalk non-binary up to androgynous. Not that Im taking that whole responsibility on myself, but that is work Im specifically engaging in. White: And in that you get to explore other peoples relationship to their gender too. The level of sensitivity with which those characters have been afforded, the level of humanity that they have been afforded, is not anywhere near what it is now. And it was incredibly freeing and ultimately, I felt like there was nothing to hide behind. But the thing about non-binary identity is that you know that youre neither of those. Which is why they were the perfect muse for a mix of non-binary summer fashion. I think they were intending Pat to be the butt of the joke, but I would love to see a 21st century reinterpretation where I feel like you could keep the premise almost identical and youre just adjusting the frame so that the butt of the joke becomes society and the need to put Pat into a binary framework. The last two questions we ask every guest, the first one is Hollywood Remixed, which is: Is there a prior attempt since we were talking about attempts attempt at a non-binary representation that you would request a do-over for? The Carson Kolker Organization manages Asia Kate Dillon. "I feel overwhelming gratitude for the incredible people who have supported me along this journey. How was that? Are we at a place where we accept and welcome trans writers, non-binary writers? I think these are conversations that mixed-race families have too. I dont know. Particularly as someone who might not necessarily align with who their child is. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. It is exactly the kind of conversation that I believe that they would it just rang so true for the characters, and I thought it beautifully handled a father who genuinely loves his child, genuinely wants to be there and to learn, and admitted within the scene that hes trying, you know? And so here I fully am. In season two, we have Axe in that scene where Taylor introduces themself and says, These are my pronouns, and Axe just says, Okay. And Mafee is the other person in that scene, who we already know is sort of Taylors BFF, very quick BFF, so we see Axe accepting Taylor in that moment and just moving on and being like, Okay, on to business. And then there is Axe I think correcting Dollar Bill in a subsequent episode. Its imperfect, but I think some of those flaws are intentional because its not just about the non-binary character. I dont think of Taylor as a hidden gem, but maybe they are. I think, Actually, I do need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation, because there is perhaps a bridge to understanding here that will benefit people who dont have a voice, who cant walk down the street without being told to kill themselves.. I went in, met with Chad [the John Wick director Chad Stahelski]. In 2017 and again, if you Google this, Im basically quoting but thats okay. Theyre also the most down to fashion-clown on a rainy day in New York City. "I also ask for patience. Or Im getting a coffee and I get called Miss, and I dont have the time or the energy. I think Taylor knows who they are and knows what their talents are. Sun: Thats great. Sun: Which is already lopsided to begin with. What I remember is receiving that script and reading those scenes and crying and thinking, This is exactly right on for Taylor, for Taylors father. In 2017, "Billions" star Asia Kate Dillon, the. And I really think it is only a matter of time and truly not that long until the Tonys, the Emmys and the Oscars follow suit. For Asia Kate Dillon, 'Billions' Is a Numbers Game - Thrillist Getting to wear drag is super fun. And those personal moments are important. White: Oh, absolutely. Knowledge has changed over time. Im not sure if folks are familiar with the anti-gay, anti-LGBTQ codes that were around in television, but there were very specific restrictions around what kind of characters that we could see, and if we did see certain characters, the way in which we could see them. Its learned. Whats wrong with him?!. Thats how the majority of Americans learn about the queer community. So it wasnt really a thing that had to get sorted right away. My joy is real, but it is also fragile. And that is a character of color in a show featuring indigenous people in a way that indigenous people havent really been represented before. Search instead in Creative? These are excerpts from the conversation. When we think about religious groups that are less white, we see less representation. Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. In 2017, when Showtime asked me how I want to be submitted for an Emmy, actor or actress, I thought, Well, I know that I use the word actor and always have, because actor is a gender-neutral word that has existed for at least a century before the word actress came into being. And its really this fluid space for this character. Taylor is able to feel the most free when there are very clear boundaries. I remember in middle school they were going to do Oliver! I was so excited to audition to play Oliver and then realized I couldnt, because I hadnt been assigned male at birth. (Laughs.). In terms of the ongoing conversation around Taylors gender identity over the past four seasons, I would say there has been very little, because that is just one part of what makes up who Taylor is. If it takes 20 years, I have personally failed. Although as an actor, Im never judging the character that Im playing, because thats not helpful. And its a little remarkable given that the characters are otherwise all kinds of assholes. It was very overdue. Lets talk a little bit about definitions so that all of us can understand the parameters of what well be talking about today. I really like a structure. Do you ever have days where you dont feel like having the conversation? Theres a tiny little calculator known as BMO who is genderless, because why wouldnt a tiny little calculator be genderless?, But White notes that representation of gender fluid characters in more grounded, realistic stories is necessary for affording gender non-comforming people their full humanity. People are just very obsessed with figuring out who we are all the time. "I love that I am trans. Did it mean male or female, did it mean man or woman, and if they were dividing people by sex or gender, respectfully, why were they doing that? Does that make sense? And also it has probably just seldom been attempted, to be honest. immyukily. I was fine with it and excited for it. Like, what if I had to be in a place where my gender didnt align with something that somebody could immediately clock? Asia Kate Dillon: I agree. And I think thats part of the key to LGBTQ representation, the storied history of LGBTQ representation and definitely non-binary representation. There was no pathway; it was more or less trying to figure it out. 'Billions' Star Asia Kate Dillon's Open Letter to the - Variety And its pretty clear to me when Im engaging with people who arent coming from that place, who just arent coming from a place of love or who arent being genuine, and so because its generally fortunately for me pretty clear whos coming from where, Im able actually to put my energy into a place that feels worth it, where Im getting something out of the exchange too, versus talking to a brick wall that I know is really immovable. Still, recurrent explaining is not something they mind one bit. It was just not a thing. But I certainly know that my gender is not something, and thats what makes it clear for me. But how about this: Because I know that your position has modified or evolved somewhat from 2017 and 2018, when you received back-to-back nominations for best supporting actor at Critics Choice Awards, and the Emmys allowed you to submit in the supporting actor category, and that was something that you did at the time where are you right now in terms of how you feel about this whole situation, this whole issue? I think their character identifies as a man, Marcus, on the show. So I dont know if youve you had heard of that. What Shows Have Been Renewed or Canceled? Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. The Masons Doug and Taylor are somewhat estranged, but its primarily because of the clashing ambitions between these two incredibly brilliant people, but still there were moments throughout that arc where I feel like viewers got a little sense of what Taylors coming out was like for both father and child. I think about the concept of the bearded lady, which has been around forever. The male/female categories uphold the gender binary, which is ultimately extraordinarily dangerous for anyone who identifies outside of it. Non-binary people have always existed. What is it like playing a nonbinary character in the hypermasculine world of Billions? ", "[As a model], I definitely don't want to tell trans people that they need to buy things in order to fully come into themselves as a trans person. Sun: And that really does emerge in so many different topics when weve been talking about inclusion is that these are sandboxes that are in some ways to use this overworn phrase in a genuine way a safe space to be able to explore some of these stories or identities that mainstream culture wasnt ready for yet. We need to see roles written for them that are Emmy-, Tony- and Oscar-worthy. "I think it's important to be able to be like, 'Yes, your shoulders are broad, yes your hands are big and your voice is deep and you're really tall and people notice you, and that makes you noticeably trans, but that doesn't make you any less beautiful. When my contract was negotiated, I knew that there was a possibility for nudity. Dillon: I was told my whole life that my body meant that I was a girl and a woman, so I really couldnt conceive of how to separate my experience of myself versus what I was told I was supposed to be because of what my body looked like. The Ellen DeGeneres Show (2003-2023) Jane Fonda ( Grace and Frankie (2015)); Asia Kate Dillon ( Billions (2016)); guest DJ Stephen Boss. Do you feel like were finally starting to see real-world and more grounded representations, where you dont need to Trojan horse it into an allegory of a non-humanoid and say this is an alien, this is a soda cup or a car, but non-binary people can exist in practical reality in seeing these characters in more realistic shows? And to have people listen and be sensitive to them. What is that line? By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Like, why am I a man? Actors need to act, actors need money. (Laughs.) Wayfair Huge Deal-A-Thon - Up to 60% off everything! What do we have in the landscape right now? So thank you. And then I dont know exactly when it happened, but I think probably last year, I cant pinpoint it exactly, I really came to an understanding that the choice between actor and actress in the context of award shows where those words only mean man/woman, male/female gender or assigned sex, asking non-binary or intersex or gender nonconforming people to choose between those categories is a false choice. Its not really your business, because its not your gender. 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Rowling's Controversial Transgender Comments, Iowa News Reporter Comes Out as Transgender Woman on Live TV: 'There's Beauty in This Process'. Speaking to The New York Times, Dillon revealed that they said to the film's director, Chad Stahelski, "we have a real opportunity here. Why is it important to you to identify as nonbinary rather than to just expand the definition of what woman can mean? Taylor also is non-binary, and in a few minutes youll hear about how that character description helped Asia understand and articulate their own gender identity. And that seems really radical, tucked within that very problematic representation. Asia, thank you for letting me indulge my inner fan for so long. This is reality for us, and all we ask for is acceptance and validation for what we say that we are. Asia Kate Dillon (born November 15, 1984) [1] is an American actor, best known for their roles as Brandy Epps in Orange Is the New Black and Taylor Mason in Billions. So in that sense, I think expanding the definition of what a woman is is great for people who identify as women and want to work at expanding that definition for themselves and the world at large. Taylors gender identity doesnt get in the way of his ultimate goal. Sun: Or even, since Billions, is there a change in the types of things that youre reading for? I remember always being drawn to the roles that had been written for men. In the 1950s, Christine Jorgensen was the first known person to undergo sex reassignment surgery, identifying as a woman some years after her service in World War II. "Billions" star Asia Kate Dillon, the first gender nonbinary performer to play a nonbinary character on a major TV show, made headlines in 2017 when they asked the TV Academy to clarify its . Why actor Asia Kate Dillon is neither woman nor man - Yahoo Its a really interesting representation. I remember feeling crushed. It said, female, gender nonbinary. This episode is about non-binary identity. Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. That also means that we can put you in dramas and comedies. And there is a part of me thats like, Gosh, I wish I know its historically significant and extraordinarily important, and Im really proud of it, and there is something about it that feels a little bit tainted by the fact that GLAAD doesnt qualify it as trans representation. To your knowledge, have people told you whether or not thats actually true to life of the real-life hedge fund world? Its a jean jacket. Its about changing and evolving the material that is created within quote-unquote Hollywood.. I have always felt non-binary, always, before I had the language to conceive or communicate what that was to other people. To have arrived at this place in my life. And the more I hold myself close and fully embrace who I am, the more I dream, the more my heart grows and the more I thrive. Sun: No, I appreciate that. Im gonna wade into this. Baby representation on TV has been a really interesting space in animation and live action. Sun: How intentional I mean, its probably safe to assume that Looney Tunes, Chuck Jones and those creators werent necessarily conscious or fully cognizant of that but these latter-day animators, this current generation you mentioned Adventure Time. Prior to that, there have been various examples through the years. I mean, I spent so many years not understanding my own gender identity, not having the language to talk about it, and not feeling safe in many environments to talk about it. Its really quite extraordinary. The Critics Choice Awards tried to score brownie points by nominating them like 3 years in a row, I think as Supporting Actor for Billions despite a not so special performance after they somehow made headlines for petitioning the Emmys to change their categories from Actor/Actress to a more inclusive one. It gives us a glimpse into why were drawn to people in power who arehahawho they are. And I think thats part of the larger history around non-binary representation in film and television. Thank you for your really thoughtful questions. The gender binary does not exist. Steven Universe gets talked about a lot, and I think thats one of the reasons why. White: I mean, I wouldnt say it looks like cisgender racial representation at all. Asia Kate Dillon is an American actress, producer, and director known for portraying various important roles in popular TV shows likeTaylor Mason in Billions andBrandy Epps inOrange Is the New Black. I love wearing wigs. Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. My relationship as a non-binary person to my gender which I dont even have a very specific label for, I dont consider myself gender fluid. Its part of the set design because its true to the world. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. And thats something thats kind of imposed on children. How 'Billions' actor Asia Kate Dillon uses their platform as 1st non Like when that happens, we dont see Taylor being cut down by that, it just reveals that the person whos doing it is horrible. I will not play a character where its essential that you have to see that persons body, and that person was assigned male at birth, and that person has not medically transitioned in any way. At . Asia Kate Dillon, an actor with non-binary gender identity, was approached for the role of The Adjudicator, who exercised admirable agency in their request to have their character also be non-binary. I think thats honestly one of the most radical things about Ted Lasso. But do you think it was significant that Taylor hasnt had a major plot line thats been centered around trauma or bigotry or that type of experience? And I think these are rooms with people who are somewhat familiar with gender identity or the concept of pronouns, or certainly when I use mine could be like, What did that mean? So yes, Im just relating to the fact that, as you said, the burden is always on or predominantly on non-binary or trans people, gender nonconforming people, to say, like, Heres how Im different instead of the burden or the joy actually on all of us getting to self-determine, be autonomous and have that respected. White: Absolutely. And they are a musician; many of the most famous non-binary celebrities coincidentally happen to be more musicians rather than actors, like Sam Smith, and I think Janelle Mone has identified as non-binary or gender nonconforming. Im Rebecca Sun, senior editor of diversity and inclusion at The Hollywood Reporter. I told you, Im pretty careful about what I watch and what I listen to. Im also so thankful to my colleague, THR associate editor Abbey White, for coming on as this weeks guest expert to share what non-binary representation has meant to their own identity formation and to teach me about the genres that perhaps surprisingly have done pretty well with gender non-conforming inclusion. There was an episode of The Next Generation where the Enterprise visits a planet where the gender binary is prohibited. But its through the media. I didnt want to take hormones, thats not my journey. Lets show some skin. "Billions" and "Orange Is the New Black" star Asia Kate Dillon sat down with Ellen to discuss paving the way as one of TV's first non-binary gender identifyi. If Im misgendered by someone who has just learned my pronouns and theyre obviously not doing it out of malice or to bully me, there is room for growth and learning, of course. And I figured, particularly when it comes to understanding gender identities along the spectrum, that I personally need some table-setting for education. And Ive learned that sometimes you think theres going to be food when you get to set, and there isnt. I always have a power ranking after every episode, and Taylor has pretty consistently been my number one character basically since Connerty went to jail and Wendy became incredibly morally ambiguous. We had Dillon in Issey Miyake in the middle of a busy street; Dillon in Maison Kitsun hanging off a rickety fire-escape. Dillon: Thank you so much, Rebecca. Everyone Is Just Scrambling: Hollywood on Edge as Writers Guild Talks Go Down to the Wire, Beef Creators Break Silence on David Choe Controversy, W. Kamau Bell Interviews Multiracial Kids in HBOs 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed Trailer (Exclusive), Warner Bros. Studios Celebrates 100th Anniversary With Diverse Shorts Re-Creating Warner Bros. I think a lot of the womens movement is perpetuating the synonymous use of woman and vagina, and not all women have vaginas, not all people with vaginas are women. And so that is very special, but yeah, we talk about mostly where Taylor is coming from emotionally and why they are the way they are and why they are behaving the way theyre behaving and doing what theyre doing. Sun: Its a great answer. And I dont know what anyones is until they tell me. Gender nonconformity has traditionally been a means of exploring horror narratives. But I think about this conversation because this is a conversation that I think people are beginning to have. Were all ignorant of what were ignorant of until were not. And I think that holds true for the entire Billions world, which is, if whatevers going on with you doesnt in the way of you making money or you making someone else money, then its not really actually a big deal. Ive seen that discourse, that conversation starting to happen online and in the real world, but to see that actually written into a show is cool. Ellen Meets Trailblazing Actor Asia Kate Dillon - YouTube Twenty years from now, will acting be more gender fluid? Non-Binary Actor Asia Kate Dillon Opens Up About Their Swimwear - Yahoo Asia Kate Dillion talks about acting alongside Dan Soder in 'Billions.'Hear more from Faction Talk on our app! In this week's episode of Hollywood Remixed, The Hollywood Reporter 's podcast about inclusion and representation in entertainment, Billions ' Asia Kate Dillon joins the show to talk about. And Ive said this before there, there were a handful of times, particularly season two, season three, and there will occasionally still happen where theres some phraseology that comes out in a script or a certain word. All Rights Reserved. I think its the intent and the knowledge that goes into that and the level of sensitivity that actually ultimately matters. Hes an asshole, hes vindictive, hes also a human being. And if every character I played from now until I die onscreen or on the stage was non-binary, that would be awesome. In fact, we think Dillon, who identifies as non-binary when it comes to gender (and uses they, them, and their as pronouns) and who turned up to the GQ Style shoot in an ab-baring Black Lives Matter hoodie, makes literally anything look really fucking dope. Check out the latest pictures, photos and images of Asia Kate Dillon. So theres also a famous Star Trek episode that deals with race, where theres a whole race of people and half of them have white on one side of the face and black on the other. Apply Bed Bath and Beyond Coupon and save 25% Off your entire purchase, Target Circle: up to 50% Off with Target promo code, Shop the new Polo Ralph Lauren x ASOS Exclusive Collection from $99, Michael Kors Promo Code: sign up for KORSVIP + Get 10% Off on first order, 2023 Cond Nast. Sun: Thats a such a universal maxim. He is a gay man of color, and one of the things that he said really stuck out to me, and that was that queer white people get to be queer, and queer people of color are people of color first, which means that society looks at our race before it looks at our sexuality. And thank you so much for having me, Rebecca. Your characters get to do different things and they get to be different people, and thats because theyre not conforming to that binary. ", "I'm not [transitioning] to be interesting. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Cond Nast. Theres a character, Milo, whos Black in Danger & Eggs. Asia Kate Dillon is an American actress, producer, and director known for portraying various important roles in popular TV shows like Taylor Mason in Billions and Brandy Epps in Orange Is the New Black. Now, non-binary actor Asia Kate Dillon is up against Keanu Reeves's title character in John Wick 3, but not to worry despite the movie trailers, they don't actually play the bad person. And I think Pat is really, really interesting, particularly for me, because when Pat was popular, I was young. I feel like a lot of art these days is just entertainment for entertainments sake. We have one character that I really, really love, Bobbie Yang from Rutherford Falls. Will breakdowns look less binary? I think that non-binary identity is still sort of fresh for much of the industry. So INSTEAD I want to be visible to queer folx who don't see people like them on their feed. Of course, sometimes theres fried chicken, but both always tend to have quinoa salad, orzo salad, etc.. Orange tends to have more sweets, theres a little bit more sugar on the Orange set. The very first time I buzzed my head I was 21 Id had short hair since I was 14 I just remember it was like 2 in the morning and I just was like, I really want to do it, I want to see what I look like and what my head shape is. Sun: Asia Kate Dillon plays the genius hedge fund executive Taylor Mason on Billions, whose fifth season returned on Showtime Sept. 5. And you see Mafee defending Taylor, which is important for people to watch. Like, why are you all so obsessed with Pats gender? Not everyone identifies within the binary.